Every so often, a Now Smell This reader comments apologetically about their own taste in perfume. Usually the comment is in reference to a scent that I've dismissed as "pleasant but uninteresting" but that the reader adores, and the basic gist is: well, I really love this scent, but I know my tastes are lame/lowbrow/mainstream, and I haven't had the chance to try all the swanky high-end only-sold-in-France-on-Tuesdays can't-pronounce-the-name fragrances that the rest of you swoon over, and I'm sure I'll grow out of this attachment to Random Cheap-o Perfume X as soon as I have. Reading such a comment, I squirm in my seat and wrinkle my brow — and all the money that I ought to have put aside for Botox, I spent on perfume.
De gustibus non est disputandum basically means 'there is no disputing taste'. If there was no point in even discussing taste, I suppose there would be no point in perfume blogs. Most people agree that there is a point in discussing taste, in perfume as in books or music or anything else people care about. Whether bloggers and other amateurs ought to be part of the discussion is a matter of dispute, but that isn't a dispute I mean to take on today. My point is that just as I'd not necessarily dismiss a movie because Anthony Lane* told me it was not worth the watching, I'd wouldn't expect anybody to dismiss a perfume just because it got a less than stellar review, here or anywhere else.
I guess I have somewhat highbrow tastes in perfume, although I do love any number of fragrances that nobody in their wildest dreams would call sophisticated, and I certainly love many that aren't expensive or exclusive or hard to find. As I've said before, I entirely fail to appreciate some perfumes that are widely acknowledged as masterpieces. We forget all too frequently that the purpose of perfume, which is, after all, a non-essential luxury item, is presumably to bring joy and to make our lives more pleasant. If a perfume makes you happy, I don't see what difference it makes what anybody else thinks of it, much less me.
I'll be the first to admit that sometimes I get more excited about niche fragrances than I do about mainstream fragrances. The mainstream brands, many of them, are investing millions upon millions on their new launches. They aren't as likely to take risks, and since they're all trying to speak to the same audience, it isn't any surprise that many of the fragrances smell dispiritingly similar. I treasure my little niche oddities. But does that mean that niche fragrances are "better"? I certainly don't think so.
Recently I was talking to a journalist who was working on an article about niche fragrance. Her basic premise seemed to be not only that niche perfumes were better than mainstream perfumes, but also that new trends in perfumery emerge out of the niche sector then spread into the mainstream sector. I certainly haven't seen any evidence of that. And while it is true that there are some really wonderful niche lines whose output is consistently interesting, let's face it, there is an awful lot of niche garbage. Niche garbage is the most annoying kind of garbage, because it costs more and because the exclusivity and ambitious pricing can work insidiously to convince the wearer that if she doesn't appreciate the fragrance, her own tastes must not be up to par. Who among us has not had the experience of smelling the latest esoteric art scent from some trendy-pompous niche brand, finding it lacking, and then wondering: is it just me? Am I not refined enough to appreciate it? Bah.
All of which is not to say that there aren't beautiful perfumes that are something of an acquired taste. If you were to spend a whole year sampling the finest teas money could buy, that little Lipton tea bag you used to enjoy might no longer interest you, and so it goes with perfume. But it does not follow that the more you spend, the better the product, or that exclusivity is any guarantee of quality. You probably are likely to get a better perfume if you spend $100 than if you spend $15, but I can think of any number of $100 fragrances that are "better" than fragrances that cost $200 or more. As you move up the price scale, you might be getting higher quality ingredients and some greater degree of artistry, but then again, you might just be paying a premium for the prestigious name brand and the extra-fancy packaging and the "exclusive to Saks" pretentiousness. If you're wearing perfume to enhance your own status and feelings of self-worth, fine, live it up, buy Clive Christian's No. 1 in the Baccarat bottle. Do whatever works for you. But if you imagine you're getting the best perfume by buying the most expensive perfume, I'd say you're as much a victim of marketing tactics as someone who'd buy a perfume just because Paris Hilton's name was on it.
And while we're on the subject of Paris Hilton, I don't think you can assume that anything with her name on it will be any better or worse than anything else with a similar price point and geared towards the same market. The question I've been asked most frequently by journalists (not that I'm asked anything with any regularity by journalists) is "are celebrity perfumes of lower quality than other perfumes?", and I always answer "no". I can tell right away that I'm not going to get quoted, because my answer doesn't fit neatly into the always-popular "rag on the celebrity scents" angle. Mind you, I do plenty of ragging on celebrity scents myself, but not because they're of lower quality. I rag on celebrity scents because I find the whole premise that I should buy something just because it has some celebrity's name on it annoying. I'm cranky that way. But if you were to walk into Macy's and ask to smell every perfume aimed at women under the age of 21 and priced at $55 or less, you'd smell all sorts of perfumes that I'd consider "pleasant but uninteresting", or perhaps even "garbage". Some of that garbage would be celebrity garbage, but plenty of it wouldn't — and you'd no doubt find quite a few things that weren't garbage at all.
So while I wouldn't buy a perfume just because a celebrity was paid to endorse it, nor would I avoid a perfume for the same reason. If Lindsay Lohan launches my dream perfume tomorrow (which, in case she is wondering, is a very green jasmine, bright and sparkling and just a bit indolic, over masses of dusty incense and a tiny dollop of dark woods) and the bottle is some hideous pink monstrosity covered with bling, trust me, I'm buying it.
Everything I've said about celebrity perfumes applies equally to designer perfumes. Many of us scoff at the notion that celebrities "design" their own perfumes, but for all I know, Hilary Duff had more to do with the creation of With Love than, say, Giorgio Armani did with Emporio Armani Diamonds. Duff did sit in a conference room and smell a few blotters — I saw the video! at YouTube! — and while she might have done it just for the cameras, so what. At least she did that much before she let them slap her name on the bottle. Does anyone really imagine that Ralph Lauren "designed" Ralph Wild, any more than he personally designs all the sheets and eyeglasses and whatnot sold under his name? Does it even matter? Why would I assume that Hilary Duff or Ralph Lauren have any particular qualifications in fragrance design?
Whew, I do go on, don't I? If you've made it this far, I can only assume that whatever you ought to have been doing at work was even more boring than this. But if you prefer Paris Hilton's Heiress to Serge Lutens' Tubéreuse Criminelle, what care I? There are days when I'm not up to Tubéreuse Criminelle myself. Wear what makes you happy, and please don't feel the need to apologize to me or to other readers. I love reading Manolo and Style Spy, but I'm not going to apologize to Manolo for my decidedly lowbrow tastes in shoes or to Style Spy for my pathetic soccer mom attire.
* Now please don't anybody suppose I'm comparing myself to Anthony Lane. Anthony Lane is a brilliant movie critic for the New Yorker; I am a perfume blogger and would not deign to call myself a critic of anything, much less perfume. And please don't comment in the name of kindness to contradict me, or you'll give me more wrinkles on my brow.
Hi Robin–
Thanks for a very enjoyable article 🙂
You put me in mind of an article I just read in the San Francisco Chronicle which touches on wine snobbery–a theory is put forward which basically says everyone's taste buds are different, so people experience wine very differently from one another–seems quite possible (probable!) the same could be true with fragrance–Monyette smells exactly like a gardenia in one of my fav gardens to me (and it does), smells like a horror to someone else…Due to differences in neurological hardwiring combined with our different histories of sniffing…
The article is at
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/07/WI0UVB2AL.DTL
The Chronicle had another interesting article today discussing attempts to build a “smell computer”
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/10/BU3IVFVAQ.DTL
Dear Robin,
I am glad that you finally addressed this issue — because it humanizes what has otherwise become something of an exclusive “niche” of the gods: perfume snobbery. There is indeed no disputing taste. One person's Luctor et Emergo is another's Charlie. I know that someone out there might have a heart attack with this comparison, but that is not the point. No matter how exploitative and commercialized mainstream perfume has become, that queue of women wearing the same shade, layer or ounce of Angel or Believe in front of the cashier, BELIEVE that their perfume is special because they CHOSE it as individuals. Choice, that is what matters. We lose it, and we lose perspective on why we buy or do things in the first place.
When I take the bus in Los Angeles, I sometimes have to wrinkle my nose when I smell a perfume “I do not agree with,” but that is all — I try not to judge the person wearing it. If we all learn to agree to disagree sometimes, whether it is about our taste in perfume or our politics, the world will be a better place…
Whiffnotes
Oops–I meant to add to the above–While some people would call me a wine snob, one of the more amusing aspects of the wine article was the assertion that some of the people with the most sensitive sense of taste–I imagine they would be somewhat akin to noses in the perfume world–anyway, they would be likely to go for the much maligned white zinfandel., while people with less sensitive palates would be more likely to like the much trendier dry reds. Lol–maybe someday we will discover that the more sensitive noses adore Love's Baby Soft, etc. (And no offense to you Baby Soft lovers…)
Absolutely brilliant, just another proof of my utter respect for you and your writing, and hilarious to boot — your “instructions” to La Lohan cracked me up but how true! Agree on all accounts and would just add that, incidentally, my tastes of late seem to be gravitating towards the mainstream rather than the niche. Nothing to do with being niche-jaded, mind you (I've only ever gotten to the 'c' in 'niche' in my scent explorations), it's what you've described so neatly: discovering beauty in the once-easily-dismissed likes of YSL L'Homme, Bvlgari Aqva etc.
Now then, you won't be needing that Botox after all, will you? 🙂
And you know my tastes easily range from the 15$ to 150$ set…
Just want to say, I love Anthony Lane. Oh, okay, and you too, I guess. 😉 Great post. There *is* a point in discussing taste – in everything, people, everything – there's just no point in apologizing for it.
See, now I am not a wine snob at all. I prefer a dry red to a white zinfandel (but in my early 20s, would have taken the white zinfandel), but a $10 bottle of dry red is as likely to please me as a $100 one. I am middle-brow on tea & chocolate, very mixed on books, out of touch entirely on music, lowbrow on clothes, shoes, cars, all sorts of other things. We all have our own little passions, no?
If I were to write an article on Love's Baby Soft, I'd have nothing very good to say about it, but it makes me feel awful when people either think that because I'm discussing my opinion, I'm trying to dictate in matters of taste, or worse still, that I must know more on the subject than they do. I KNOW NOTHING, I'm just another perfume consumer.
Huge thanks for both article links — will post about that smell computer tomorrow!
“One person's Luctor et Emergo is another's Charlie” is so true, and I think you can take it even further and say that if you spend too much time among the Luctor et Emergo stuff, you lose perspective on the Charlie stuff. There are some really lovely, very cheap scents if you're able to suspend your brand/price prejudices.
Dusan, you know, I think the last year or so has been way better on the mainstream front than the niche front. There have been some truly stellar mainstream launches, and some really disappointing ones on the niche side, and gosh, the niche lines are sprouting up at such an unreal rate. How could they possibly all make money?
Do you think La Lohan is listening? Sure wish someone would make me that scent.
Robin, I don't find you dictatorial in the least. Based on your reviews, you and I are probably something of perfume opposites, but I find your reviews nonjudgmental and enormously helpful to me in figuring out if a fragrance might appeal to me…
You know, nothing in my life has brought me so much consistent joy and over such a long period of time as the New Yorker. Is that wacky? It's true though. There is a blog about the New Yorker, did you know?
http://emdashes.com/
I guess this means I can take my Coty Wild Musk out of hiding and wear it proudly.
forgot to add the ubiquitous LOL at the end… 🙂 😉
Hey, but Coty's Wild Musk is widely loved, even among niche-snob perfumistas! I'm sorry to say I've tried Coty Wild Woods but not Wild Musk.
One of the reasons it's so easy to be a perfume snob is it's so darned hard to try mass market scents — you can't find testers, you certainly can't get samples.
You're very kind, and see, that is the best way: find someone whose tastes are opposite to yours (what we call “evil fragrance twins” on MakeupAlley) and try everything they hate.
Thanks for a fabulous article, Robin! I agree with you wholeheartedly on most of the points you bring up, but I differ from you in that, even if I really liked a celebrity scent, I do think that my opinion of it would be brought down somewhat by the very fact that it *is* a celebrity scent. I've mentioned before, in response to a post by Angela, that I *want* to be a fragrance “purist” – just care about the juice inside, no regard to the brand, the bottle, the ad copy, etc., but I just can't. Even if, for example, Paris Hilton's Heiress smelled lovely, I don't know if I could enjoy wearing it to the same extent that I could wearing something created by a venerable old perfume house, because yes, I do want the whole package – I want the elegant bottle, the story behind it, the knowledge that it was created with some degree of care and personal interest in the fragrance. I want the complete “fragrance experience”, silly as that may sound. This is not to say that I'm a sucker for all of the ridiculous ad copy that some of the niche houses put out, or that some of what they put out isn't garbage. It also has nothing to do with price or “exclusivity”, per se – I think, for example, that some of Estee Lauder's fragrances (particularly the older ones) are fantastic, and they can easily be found in any department store, many for under $30. But still, in some way, the entire aura of a fragrance, and not just the the scent itself, does matter to me.
I agree!
Reposted for Robin — Robin, sorry but had to add a space in that long string of dashes, it was stretching the page:
On March 10, 2008 Robin said:
I want someone to make that green, sparkling jasmine of yours, Robin, dusty incence and dark woods and all!!!! I'll be the first to order a vat — and if it's got Ms. Lohan's name on it, what the dilly!!
Just let it be available in Vancouver at a price that doesn't make me hyperventilate ;^p) (Ever thought of becoming the next “celebrity” to have a scent? You've got a lot of fans. . .)
Robin, just a fantastic article. I am one of the newbies who have frequently voiced the shucks-I-don't-know-knowin'-nuthin'/ sorry-I-love–this-dumb-mainstream-scent apology on this very blog, so thanks for the renewed encouragement!
One question: vis-a-vis your comment that *there have been some truly stellar mainstream launches, and some really disappointing ones on the niche side*: would you just recap what those might be?
Thanks for brightening this dark, dreary day.
Reply to this comment
Hey, I want that scent so bad! What is funny is that I'm intrigued by the combination, but having never smelled it, I'm not at all sure it wouldn't smell disgusting, LOL!
If you look at my “Best of 2007” picks – http://tinyurl.com/28pn4p I think you'll agree they're more mainstream than niche, and my big disappointments for the year were mostly niche. Granted, that's just one year, but still. I think the niche sector is getting as overwhelmed by launches as the mainstream — there are easily as many boring scents coming out of niche now as mainstream.
Oh man, gonna waste a lot of time at that link – thanks, I guess!
Loved this.
I absolutely agree that niche garbage is the most annoying kind of garbage, and there is a whole lot of it.
On the one hand, I'd rather have my dream scent from Hermes in a classy bottle too, with some lovely back story, why not? But I'd probably rather pay the Coty Beauty prices, and more to the point, I don't much see the difference between buying Paris Hilton Heiress and buying Guerlain Insolence (fronted by Hilary Swank) or Estee Lauder Pleasures (fronted by whatshername, can't think of it now) or Chanel No 5 (Nicole Kidman). Either way, you're helping to enrich a celebrity who is a) already rich, b) might or might not have any better taste in fragrance than you do, c) supporting a system in which consumers are encouraged to spend money on one or another aspirational basis, e.g., buy Chanel No. 5, you too can live Nicole Kidman's lifestyle!
That Nicole Kidman is more elegant than Paris Hilton I don't think anyone can deny, but the premise still strikes me as absurd. For all I know Paris has better taste in scent than Nicole. It cracks me up when these little California perfume oil companies publicize which starlets bought their fragrances, I mean really, that says more about the taste of the celebrities in question than it does about the excellence of the product. Gosh, I really can't shut up today, can I???
Hi, R. I never got those airs from you at all. Your non-judgemental, educating reviews have whittled my daily perfume blog-reading from several to just yours. Keep up the good work.
C.
The pile is growing every day, no?
The internets they be so entertaining, LOL — a blog about a magazine sounds ludicrous, but it's a great blog.
Thanks, R. Now let's get down to it: drum roll please: the Big Disappointment Niche Scents of Recent History are. . .??
(This is not to be naughty/cantankerous, of course; it's so I can learn more and not spend so much freakin' hard-earned money on expensive decants that aren't work the glass they're syphoned into!!)
Well gosh, we neither of us have that much time, LOL — I listed a few of my bigger disappointments in that article, can't possibly list them all. But see, just because I don't like something, you shouldn't assume it isn't worth the decant container — that's the whole point. You're not cooperating 😉
You're very kind, thanks 🙂
I did raise an eyebrow about the, uh, recursive idea of a blog about a single magazine, but now that I have looked at it, I am completely sucked into a piece about the mention of tacos in a Herman Wouk novel. And I am not even a Wouk fan. I barely tore myself away long enough to write this comment, and aahhh – it's pulling me baaaack….
Robin thanks to NST I discovered the niche lines and that was an enrichment to my life.
Also good to discover that there are niche perfumes that absolutely do not please me.
My perfume spectrum was broadened and at the same time I learned to be more critical for some prices do not match with the perfumes and with my wallet.
You learn all kinds of other great stuff too — like who wrote the most short stories for NYer (James Thurber!) and they cover style/usage issues, and so on and so forth, and link to stuff about the writers, etc etc. Since I'm usually at least a month behind on the NYer if not more (am in the middle of the Jan 28 issue now), it also acts as a kind of an “upcoming highlights” for me.
I usually liken this sort of thing to food. There are hundreds of great or even merely good cheeses out there, but dammit, sometimes you just want a big dollop of Cheez Whiz on your hot dog.
There's nothing wrong with cheap scents as long as 1) they smell good on you and 2) they make you happy. That, as Robin noted, is the entire reason we wear them in the first place. My two cornerstones of cheap greatness are Old Spice (a beautifully constructed masculine-floral scent) and Tabu (a brassy, kinda-dirty monolith that spawned a thousand oriental imitators), and they've both been around forever (1937 and 1932, respectively), so clearly they're doing something right.
Purism is for the fearful. Snobbery is for the scornful.
So agree that it is important to question whether the price matches the perfume (much less your wallet). It is hard to judge worth when you don't know the value of the juice, and even harder given the massive mark-up on perfume in general, but I do think some niche lines are just ludicrously priced.
You take the bus in LA too? Cool!
One of the many ways I've failed as a parent is that I cannot get my son to like Cheez Whiz. He did like canned Vienna sausages for a time, but he has given those up now.
Still working on liking Tabu, but Old Spice is just great stuff.
Robin-
Well put! I do have to write though that if people feel put down by a blogger not liking a scent that they like that sometimes that can be on the person reading the blog. I think for the most part that bloggers tend to try to be kind enough to write that Eau de Whatever was not good on them rather than it was ghastly swill that should be banned and whose wearers should be ashamed for wearing it. And yes, there are some deeply disappointing niche fragrances out there, and some really nice mainstream ones. I have a soft spot for the smell of Canoe for instance. There I wrote it.
When I started on MakeupAlley and reading perfume blogs, I felt like I had to love only niche scents to get my street creds. Fast forward four years. I'm more secure and feel that I can like whatever. My latest mass market purchase was BBW Chocolate Amber. Cheap and fun. Nothing to brag about on the forums, but it makes me happy.
I just spent a few minutes trying to think of under-$50 fragrances that I really like, and I can only come up with two: Youth Dew and 4711 cologne. I guess that's better than nothing. 🙂
I'm mostly a fan of the classics, which is great because while the prices of every niche brand have been skyrocketing lately, the Guerlains (aside from the new, niche-y, LE ones) and Carons have remained comparatively stable. Thank goodness for that!
I do see your point! To me it is not always about who is to blame, I guess. I mean, I feel for the person who adores Miss Dior Cherie, comes here and sees my less than glowing review, followed by a bunch of snarky comments, including mine — that is not a welcoming atmosphere in which to share your own opinion. On the one hand, I've no desire to curb my own opinions or the opinions of other commenters, on the other, I am so glad when people are brave enough to comment that they love Miss Dior Cherie.
How is it that I don't know what Canoe smells like?? I think everybody I knew when I was younger wore Old Spice.
I so know what you mean about street cred! I do think the MUA fragrance board has become a bit less niche-oriented, don't you?
In “The Emperor fo Scent” Luca Turin states that Tommy Hilfiger (for women) is one of the top ten greatest fragrances of all time. This absolutely floors me, since I have the utmost respect for the esteemed scent scientist. Tommy is nice and pleasant but hardly iconic. But that's his opinion. And just because you don't like ozonics and I do, I don't have any less respect for you, and you don't ask me to never write to this blog again. Our differences in taste are what makes the perfume world go round, and this blog.
Like Kiki, I too am seduced by the whole package. I want a beautiful bottle to go with the scent I love. For example, I won't buy Hugo Boss Woman because the bottle isn't girly enough. I really like the fragrance and should decant it perhaps.
The difference between a fragrance whose spokesmodel is used in ads and a celebrity fragrance is that while Gwyneth Paltrow gets a tidy sum for posing for Pleasures, Paris Hilton, we would hope, had some input in the actual creation of the perfume. Hilary and Nicole are posers; JLo and Hilary Duff put their names on the bottle.
In fairness to the little niche brands, I don't think they can afford to eat the losses entailed by the plummeting value of the dollar. Guerlain presumably can, for a time.
Can think of quite a few under-$50 scents I like, and bet you'd come up with more yourself.
You made me truly laugh out loud!!! Okay, okay, I'll cooperate, dammit, but it's not going to be easy 😀
I have been (self) studying fragrance for over 20 years, and I am as impressed by Hilfiger's Dreaming as I am by a Niche I received in the mail as a gift today.
I find that it stands apart from the other soft florals with a touch of fruit. It is very balanced and comforting. It is my favorite mainstream since Ralph Lauren Romance.
As for the Niche, I am loving this. And it is different from a Main Stream, most of them do take more of a chance, and to my nose, they smell a bit more expensive. Maybe that is the risky feeling they have. Maybe it is the ingredients?
I have neve smelled a fragrance by Maurice Roucel that I did not swoon over. Maybe it has mostly to do with the Nose that creates it.
And it also has a lot to do with what receptors our individual noses react to, our individual scent memories, and our body chemistry.
I think that fragrance has much to do with the individual.
It is rare that I find something incredibly vile. (on the same note, it is rare that I find something incredibly extraordinary.)
Ok..off my soapbox now.
And I do agree about Paris. (this makes me think of that South Park episode!)
Do you know, Robin, I swear to God, that it was precisely those snarky comments about Miss Dior Cherie that almost had me write off your fantabulous, much-revered blogsite a year or two ago. Amazing you would have mentioned that example in particular. Those comments were SO powerfully negative at the time; I mean, now I'd just shrug my little old shoulders and let it roll right off, but back then in my fragrance-blogging infancy, I just about turned and ran, shamefaced, in the opposite direction. Somehow, I feel much better now. Words are powerful things.
Celestia, we'll have to agree to disagree — I do not assume (and nor do I hope) that Paris had any more to do with Heiress than Gwyneth (thanks for the name!) had to do with Pleasures.
A bit. I think that's because the readership is wider than before. On the other hand, it seems that new niche lines pop up faster than before. Just when I think I know them all (just names; no way could I sniff everything), someone posts about a line I never heard of. Too hard to keep up these days! *sees street cred slipping away*
When I take the NY bus and someone scents the whole bus I wrinkle my nose no matter how divine the perfume is. I guess I'm a sillage snob.
PBI here – Robin, I agree that the MUA board seems to be less niche-y these days. Case in point: I don't feel I need to hide my love for YR scents (3 of my all-time HGs are from this line: Voile d'Ambre, Gardenia + Cocoon), or Tabu, or Coty Wild Musk, or Miracle So Magic; on the other hand, I (unfortunately) also love 31 rue Cambon, Ellie D, and the Gobin Daudes…
I'd be happy to send you some Coty Wild Musk, btw – shoot me a moo if you'd like it.
🙂
Interesting that it was that same fragrance! But what can you do? There isn't much point in blogging if everybody has to be entirely PC all the time. A long time ago, a commenter complained about one of my posts, basically — why are you wasting our time with bad fragrances? Why not just write about good fragrances? It has stuck in my head for over a year now, because I think while you can dismiss such a comment as silly, it does sort of illustrate a divide in terms of what kinds of information people are looking for on the internet, and there are certainly tons of product-oriented blogs that do not generally bother to review products unless they like them.
That might be the reason. But also — I think NOBODY can keep up these days, and that might be part of the reason too. In other words, it is no longer possible to maintain a core group of people who have tried very nearly everything, and that opens things up. Not sure that made sense, LOL…
LOL — I need to install some special software that will delete all mention of the Gobin Daude line before I see it — I can't take it! (j/k, you know, sort of)
Agree, there is more discussion there of mainstream and mass market, and I also think I see more negative reviews of brands that used to be considered untouchable (e.g., Serge Lutens & the like).
And thanks for the kind offer, I will!
great reading! i am also new to this board & have made the “perfume novice” comments to excuse my mainstream taste… i hadn't really put a lot of thought into why. now that i think about it i can see that my own job in niche product sales has me predisposed to rationalize my taste in all things luxury. i also think youth may have something to do w/ it… the further out i get from high school/college the less ashamed of my love for hall & oats i become (ok, i may have some residual shame, but i'm working on it 🙂 interesting! mind you i have never actually been embarrassed by my bottles of bath & body works japanese cherry blossom or miss dior cherie but i did feel a certain level of intimidation or lack of street cred (hehe…) on here. it's nice to feel welcome 🙂 thanks!
Kim, do tell what the niche scent is!
So agree that our individual scent memories are so important. Can never make up my own mind about body chemistry and how big a factor it is.
Robin, I really enjoyed reading not just your thoughtful post but all the interesting responses, and anything marginally interesting/clever I might have said has already been taken by someone else. 🙂
In the most general sense, yes, niche scents are more likely than mainstream scents to be “interesting,” and thus to interest me. But you are right, they irritate me much more when they're bad, because their aspirations are different. Some of the niche stuff is nothing but marketing.
At the same time, totally agree with you and Iris (?) about the “street cred” which I will twist slightly — for the first year or two, frequently what I wanted was: the weirder the better. I am now more interested in more accessible scents, and I'm just as likely to find those among mainstream scents (which are, after all, designed for their accessibility.) Assuming they keep their hand away from the sugar tin, I'm often pleased. I think Hilary Duff is a great scent, BTW, along with Old Spice and many others. And I am at a place where I can write that and not feel slightly uncomfortable, you know?
To whatever extent you've written this in response to your own discomfort with the dialog, and/or feedback from readers, I think you come across as very un-snobby and willing to assess scents on their merits. With a dry twist of humor I like.
Robin, I think your blogsite has found a nice balancing point on the continuum: neither too far towards the ruthlessly snarky end nor too close to the goody two shoes PC end of the spectrum. It's a credit to you, your writers, and your kind and knowledgable bloggers.
What a fabulous post! Very engrossing comments, too – it's no wonder that I can't get anything accomplished when I get home from work! My *down time* becomes hours spent reading perfume blogs, not that I'm complaining. 🙂
Michael Storer, Monk (i love it)
Being in France, I do get to smell (some of) the fancy ones. And the ones I miss are the ones that I can't get here, all the American ones! Tommy Hilfiger and Michael Kors and Jennifer Lopez and god help me Britney Spears! (not that I would buy any of those, but I would like to sniff them before buying a bottle plus a fortune from Ebay for shipping).
I am always amazed by how different tastes are. How someone can want to smell floral or aquatic when that is the last thing I want to smell like…
What a fine little article you have just posted and how you have taken the words out my mouth and destroyed the possibilties of a smart little article of my own on my own site! LOL!!
Seriously, from one perfume lover to another, it needed to be said. Especially for all those new perfume lovers who think there's something wrong with them. Nothing is.
Wow! I love this article.
And maybe I even needed it for couple of weeks because I became obsessed to my greatest dissapointemen with buying “light blue”.
I hated myself, I bit my lips and tore hair on my head.
– Why! God, whyyy! Why do I want this most disgusting mainstream product with which every girl in Russia soakes herself every morning? And if she doesn't – well! she certainly had for several years earlier untill she finally understood that light blue is the most utterly popular filthy mainstream product!!! – cried I.
And what do you think? After this article of yours I thought:
– Why on earth should I care of others and their opinions. I Love it! Yes. With all respect to myself: I LOVE IT!
So. Why do we always need those opinions of others on such personal things. Why can't we understand that we are the “kings”? Why boher yourself to find someone whose opinion is similar and not simply postulate that others are fools?
I'm very sorry If I sounded too blonde and rude altogether. I wasn't serious. At least not too much serious.
A great – and very necessary article Robin. Thanks!
Great article.
I totally relate as today I used the last of my Adidas Urban Spice Cologne, to me the best “daywear” cologne ever and only 15u$s with a matching deodorant…and it was DISCONTINUED!!! 🙁
So….in spanish there is this saying: “Sobre Gustos No Hay Nada Escrito” there's nothing written regarding tastes.. which is I think another way to say “De gustibus non est disputandum”.
Actually, I just looked it up, and it comes from that latin phrase :-D.
Robin: what's the update in the Prix Eau Faux? I'm dying here!!! I want some samples to laugh and lighten up my week! 😀
Many commenters on lots of blogs about whatever—perfume, food, fashion, music—will say how much they love what is *different* or niche simply because it is the opposite of *mainstream*. It's not cool to say one likes anything mainstream, you know. EVEN IF the commenter has rarely really experienced anything niche.
Man, I gotta say though: I really hate Old Spice! 😛
Robin (the non NST one) – I feel I owe you an apology, because I'm pretty sure one of those snarky comments was mine. 🙁
OK, I genuinely don't like Miss Dior Cherie, but I also genuinely don't like SL Chypre Rouge, which is a similar concept, but aimed at a different market. IThe way I see it, a perfume either makes you feel good or it doesn't – and if it elates you, it doesn't matter whether it's sold on every Estee Lauder counter or is something for which you have to develop friendships in faraway places. The important thing is the feeling of pleasure you get when you're wearing it – and if everyone liked the same scents, then there wouldn't be any commercial point in producing 800+ a year! So wear your MDC with pride – you've found something you love at an affordable price that you don't have to tie yourself in knots to get hold of. Smart going!
Here's the thing about perfume–or any other kind of–snobbery:
Would you rather get carried away by a whim and end up reeking of something loud and unsubtle and be out $15, or would you rather get carried away by your loftiest urges and end up reeking of something loud and unsubtle and be out $115? If one of the reasons some people buy scent is to lend themselves an air of sophistication, in which situation are you likely to feel the bigger fool?
Bellodgia is one of the all-time classic, most beautiful scents in the world. In 1980 you could get a nice big bottle (2 1/4 oz. PDC) for ten bucks. Please don't confuse taste with money, ever. Young women putting themselves in credit-card danger to signal “taste” and “mastery” are in for a few learning-the-hard-way surprises.
Buy only what you love–and love and respect what you buy enough to savor it for itself. Don't let marketers (even lower-key high-end marketers!) walk you like a dog.
Ah — not only niche, but true “indie” niche!
I wonder if we're not all disposed to “rationalize our taste in all things luxury”, even if living a real luxury lifestyle is out of our reach.
And can't help you with that Hall & Oates problem, but boy do I have a few similar problems of my own! One of my favorite playlists on my iPod is all 70s bubblegum pop. Love it! That does not earn me “music” street cred, LOL…
Our trajectory is similar — at first, was so blown away by what niche had to offer, I couldn't be bothered w/ the mainstream.
Agree on the Hilary Duff, thought it was very well done, and while not exactly “out on a limb”, maybe “out on a limb” for a celeb scent. Was very disappointed in “Wrapped With Love” though.
I don't think it is in response to negative feedback exactly. More that I'm very uncomfortable with comments that imply that people are reconsidering their own tastes because they assume my tastes are more valid than theirs, or that if they like something I don't, it must be because they aren't as knowledgeable.
At least you're not reading at work, LOL!
It is true tastes are so different — that is why it makes me sad that 75% of the new perfumes seem to be geared towards the same tastes. There ought to be greater variety — and in that area, at least, niche beats mainstream.
Sorry to have taken the words out of your mouth 🙂
Light Blue is awfully likable, what can you do? And if everyone else is still wearing it, layer it with a little tiny bit of something to make it your own.
Thanks Mike!
Don't be hating on my Old Spice, LOL!
Isn't that the last straw — they can't even keep making something that only cost $15 to begin with? I mean, how much could it cost them to make it?
I am SO SORRY — meant to do a PEF post today, but will do it tomorrow. The entries went out to the judges on Saturday, and hope to have their votes back by this weekend — so hopefully, we'll be voting by next week.
Wow, I don't think you can get Bellodgia that cheaply now! That's amazing.
So agree with “don't let marketers walk you like a dog”.
I think I am not qualified to mix fragrances.
Any ideas on what might go with light blue?
Yes, I came across this concept via a wine tasting class at UC Davis. Evidently there are “Supertasters” who have more tastebuds per square inch of tongue than the rest of us and who can taste certain compounds undetectable to the rest of us and who will generally react to strong flavors unfavorably. We were taught that you can test this by dyeing your tongue blue and having a partner count the number of tastebuds that show up in a discrete area of the tongue. (I am not making this up–search 'supertaster'!) Maybe supersmellers would shy away of the more complex and challenging concoctions out there.
Hi–
I read about the blue tongue thing in the Chronicle article–the article also has a link for a questionnaire to get a rough idea what kind of taster you are.
You are very lucky to be able to access the expertise of UC Davis!
I have heard of supertasters! There is actually a kid's song about supertasters, now I'll have to see if I can remember who sang it.
Have only been into perfumes and reading these wonderful blogs passionately for about 5 months now. My funniest “perfume week” has been one when I bought Sisley's Eau de Campagne (cost me about 90 euros) and Beautimatic's Prague. It costs 2,60 euros/ 30ml (really only 2,60), can only be found in the cheapest markets, lasts about an hour and doesn't have an olfactory pyramide. But for that price can't really complain. I had fun with my Prague spraying it all over and creating an olfactory pyramide of what I smelled since it didn't have one:
Top: Champagne, Flowers, Fresh Perfume Slut notes.
Middle: White Vine, Peach, Almost Fresh Perfume Slut notes.
Base: Boozy notes, Musk-Musk-Musk, Not So Fresh Anymore Perfume Slut notes.
I guess this is a fun stage to be at, to be a beginner. When You already know something but not yet enough to be very critical or snobbish or to get seriously irritated by bad quality stuff. Mostly having fun, being curious. Better enjoy this beginner stage while it lasts, it won't be forever…
HA! Thank you!
I'm a bit of an amateur at this perfume thing, and easily swayed by a rave review from Luca Turin (even if I didn't like it myself) or a bash from NowSmellThis (even if I loved it). My favorites are a motley collection, and my all-time favorite (it's been an internal struggle admitting this) is Chanel Chance Eau Fraiche. I know they released it with a picture of a curly haired cheerleader leaping across the bottle. I know people say it smells like apple juice. I know it's sour candy green with pink lettering. But I love it, and damnit, it smells delicious on me. Harumph.
I've smelled some perfume big wigs, both niche and mainstream, that I can't stand. After trying YSL Opium, I spent a whole day being hounded by my roommate to take a shower, and I felt physically ill after a day trying on Frederic Malle's Lipstick Rose. On the other hand, I love Old Spice, Guy Laroche Drakkar Noir, and the Body Shop White Musk.
Thanks for a very comforting article. I feel much less boorish in my taste and a lot happier smelling that Chanel on my wrist (love it love it love it).
ditto on the white musk 🙂 i'm going to check out that chanel tomorrow!
I just stumbled across an article in the Onion AV Club which, while not about perfumery, is very much in line with this discussion:
http://www.avclub.com/content/interview/carl_wilson
The interviewee is talking about matters of musical taste, but his ideas can apply to any sort of taste. In fact, you could pretty much take out all the references to musicians such as The Decemberists and Celine Dion and replace them with Etat Libre D'Orange and Paris Hilton and the article would still be coherent and cogent.
LOL — nice list of notes! Hope you love your Eau de Campagne too, since it cost you more?
That curly haired cheerleader ruined Chance Eau Fraiche, it's true! Try to forget about her.
One of the first things I ever ordered unsniffed was a Jacomo scent that Luca Turin said was lovely. It turned out to be a melon-y aquatic thing, if I remember correctly, that I couldn't stand.
No apology needed, VanillaGirl!!! I was a rookie with a typical rookie's insecurities back then; now I'm a tough old bird and NOTHING makes me feel in the LEAST ashamed of the gauche things I love and wear come hell or high water (well, not strictly true; I'm still a wee bit thin-skinned, but I'm getting much better!!). But that's sure nice of you to feel my pain ;-D
(P.S. I've seen your posts a lot over the last year or two and I've found them invariably tactful and respectful, for what it's worth!)
Yes I do, Tom. Sometimes, taking the bus in LA is like getting a glimpse into human evolution, and sometimes , it is a great way to see (and smell) Los Angeles from a different “vehicle.”
🙂
lol, and he is a cool guy
while my heart belongs to Maurice Roucel, Michael gets a part of it, too 🙂
R, who sings, “I want you to want me? I need you to need me?” (bubblegum pop quiz time!)
A wonderful article! We are one of those evil smell opposites with blue tongues and red toes, but I respect your opinion and have often tried a perfume just to understand how you smell. I wear perfume because it makes me feel whatever I want to feel–happy, satisfied, sexy. The next person may feel rich, bitchy and snarky wearing the same thing.
One woman's Poison is another *poisson,* my French mom used to say. If we all had the same taste we'd all be schlepping around in those dreadful foam clogs. Probably orange ones. It's a big world. Let's go play in it!
Great post! I will be the first to admit that I love a lot of “cheap” perfumes, whether actually cheap or just deeply discounted due to going out of fashion. No matter to me, I scoop 'em up. Whether it's Sand & Sable at the drugstore or something that used to be pricey relegated to TJ Maxx, I look for bargains everywhere. I buy at full price – rarely – when that is the only option (Serge Lutens, etc.) but I am always open to trying stuff from the online discounters. I have found some incredible scents that way – like finding out how fabulous Rochas Absolu is with a $10 mni bottle.
Oh, and when you get hold of La Lohan's people, please let her know that I would like some of that green jasmine ” dream perfume too! ” 🙂
There is a rule in librarianship known as Ranganathan's Law, part of which could be adapted for perfume-land:
“Every perfume its wearer, and every wearer his/her perfume.”
ohh, I also love Sand and Sable! I need to find another bottle of this. I like Old Spice and Brut, too 🙂 and I am not ashamed to say this!
Does Robin like Sand and Sable?
Good Article
But I dont agree with all of it.
Your real question is “What is Beauty ?” … “It is something I am perhaps alone to like ?” … “It is something rare ?” … “It is something expensive ?” …
There is no real answer to this question … but a Perfume is a Juice, a Bottle, a name and an ad. If you can really taste a Perfume without thinking of the bottle, the perfume house which dit it, the nose who create it, the name and the ad … you are really a Saint.
Perfumers know it … “We begin to smell with our eyes, when we see the bottle” .. the construction is in your mind. And on this point there is still a huge difference betwenn niche and mainstream.
The mainstream image of a perfume is still the same …. Beautifull tall top model which burst in erotic radiation around her … is in not so “childish” ? .. no it is not “Our” Perfume can transform an average girl in a top model … Some exceptions amoung the mainstream houses exist (Hermes, Caron, …) but the message is still the same … the ad is still the same …
Explain me why if the image, the ad is the same .. why the juice at the end would not be the same … only 4 or 5 kind of top model exists .. why not limit the perfume to 4 or 5 flagrances. Aldehyde for the Blond girl, Woody Spicy for the black girl, Amber oriental for the Asiatic Girl …
Even if there is a huge amount of snobbery (and I am certainly amoung) Niche perfume dont play on the same field … they treat me as a Grown Up and try to associate a perfume with a Journey or an Emotion.
I consider Perfume as a kind of Art. What the perfume means is important for me. I want to fell a creation and a creation cannot be a pure neutral sensation.
There is a lot of garbage in Niche … but this is a normal process in creation … 100% Masterpiece can not exist. All artist have made piece of Garbage.
So for the moment you can count me amoung the Snob. I try to avoid mainstream …
No need to be sorry 😀 I am just impatient, which is one of my worst traits..hehehe.
Thanks for the update 😀
Oh yes! Had been wanting that for months. It was love at first sniff with Eau de Campagne. Hadn't even heard of Ellena or other noses at time so it really was just the scent itself that was so wonderful.
It was nice to read what your dream perfume would be like. I would like to smell it! Would ' t that be a grat POL? The readers' dream perfumes. Maby you have already done that on some forum or blog?
I'm not qualified either! And sometimes you have to play, because things that sound good don't turn out to smell good. But you might try a very light amount of some deeper floral fragrance, or even a dry woods.
Ok, I managed to keep myself from googling. I think it might be Lobo?? But if it isn't Lobo, I've no idea.
HA — by the dreadful foam clogs, you mean crocs, right? That is what Manolo rails against, and his croc posts crack me up. I read some horrified post on a fashion blog a week or so about the dreaded “mommy jeans” and had to laugh. Don't they get it? It isn't that “mommy jeans” or croc wearers DON'T KNOW, it's that they couldn't care less. Does anyone imagine that seriously caring about fashion makes you a better person?
Deeply discounted is my favorite perfume category! And even Serge has been known to appear at the online discounters.
Hopefully La Lohan's people will make us at least 5-10 bottles 🙂
I don't love Sand & Sable! Of the older Cotys, my favorite is Muguet des Bois.
Thank you, I had never heard of the 'five laws' — just found an interesting article trying to apply these to the web in general:
http://www.webology.ir/2004/v1n2/a8.html
I'll have to think of 'five laws' for perfume.
You have more faith in the niche lines than I do — I assume the reason they don't have the top models advertising their products is not because of a fundamental difference in philosophy, but because they can't afford it.
And I don't see that many of them are treating me as a grown-up. Is JAR or Nasomatto treating me like a grown-up when they refuse to tell me anything about the scents? Is Le Labo treating me like a grown-up when they restrict the sale of Aldehyde 44 to Dallas, or Indult, in making me join a “club”? These are all just marketing schemes, same as with the mainstream brands — the only difference is that they are marketing schemes designed to appeal to my sense of snobbery.
I adore Campagne too, wish I had a bottle. I keep an eye out for a good discount here, but it is never cheap enough!
Great idea for a poll, thanks! Will see if we can't do that soon.
Thank you! I tell myself I'm thick-skinned, but note how quiet I am about my love for Light Blue and Chanel Allure…and Organza…and Glow…and Maybe Baby…
I spent an hour thinking about this last night at 2 a.m. (your fault!) and am mulling it further.
And I understand/share your discomfort, enough to put up my own disclaimer regularly on PP – at the end of the day, yeah, who cares if I diss your Holy Grail, or love something you can't stand?
Although you're wrong about Sand & Sable! ;-P
omg, I knew the answer when I wrote this, Cheap Trick, I think, I will not google either!
I may be wrong about Sand & Sable, but you're wrong about Vanille Tonka — and at least I didn't say I'd rather stick a fork in my hand than wear Sand & Sable. Ha! See, that was so funny it stuck in my head, and what can you do — you can't go around posting disclaimers all the time “I'd rather stick a fork in my hand than wear VT, but of course, if you love it, I'm OK You're OK”.
Robin, what is happening… after my first sample by Montale which was Roses Musk, I just received three more by Montale Paris and they are Powder Flowers, Ginger Musk and Chypre Vanille…and I LOVED Roses Musk and with Powder Flowers on my arm I did not particularly the topnotes but began to like to middle notes more – a very special babypowder – and the basenotes are so good and sophisticated: truly 'to die for'…!! How amazing and still two more samples to go and two more on their way. Oh, I do love Montale. And…I would have never heard of Montale if not for NowSmellThis..thank you Robin 😀 !!!
I'm just starting out on perfume and I've found your blog to be the best-written and least judgy of the perfume blogs I've seen. This article pushed me into posting territory, as I've been shy before about my inexperience.
My first purchase ever (very recent!) was Omnia, but I'm looking for something lighter – even though it's too early, I want to be ready for summer. Magical Moon makes me swoon, but I worry that it's too heady for daytime. Jardin Sur Le Nil is my best idea so far – I want to like the more sophisticated Hermes fragrances but Eau des Merveilles made me physically ill and 24 Faubourg smells like a shoe to me.
Anyway, I'll keep reading in hopes of a teaser for the best perfumes of early summer. I'd love to see a review of the new Max Mara Le Parfum here. Love your blog!
LOL — but there goes your bank account! Not sure you should be thanking me 😉
Hi and welcome! Absolutely cracking up at “24 Faubourg smells like a shoe to me”.
Wondering if you tried Omnia Crystalline for summer? And would like to review the new Max Mara, but so far have not been able to score a sample.
I got a sample at the Max Mara store. It smells really optimistic and invigorating to me (lime and nutmeg), but a bit too “pink” for right now. I'm dying to find a review to tell me what to think about it, LOL!
I'll try Omnia Crystalline, thanks!
way late to this party (been sick) but ditto to everything you said. my ultimate test of a perfume is – does it make me feel something special? i think that standard can work for everyone, and takes a lot of the confusion and noise out of the equation.
Robin, great point, it's just as easy to enjoy a $10 or a $100 dollar bottle of wine or fragrance, it's all about your preferences no matter if it's, art, fragrance, food, etc.
I noticed though, that I like dark chocolate, red wine, smoky/dark fragrances, etc…must be my theme….
How about Michael Kors Island for more floral depth, or la Vanilla-Vanilla Coconut for a softer, still fruity island theme. Anything translucent floral with clear musk drydown would probably work….
Thanks for writing that disclaimer out, because reading it made me burst out laughing. I forgot about the fork thing … and then I wonder why people are shy about commenting…
I was sniffing something today with Sariah and she likes it and after I sniffed it on her I said, it smells like pee! And she looked at me funny and I thought, lord, where is my EDIT button. 🙁 I don't think I could cover that one with, no, no — I meant in a *good* way.
No but I dont consider JAR or “Le Labo” as niche perfume.
Only trap for rich costumer. They have created their “marketing” before their juice.
They are from Paris ? really … well come in Paris and you will see that there is only one small selling point. Where in fact nothing is sell .. I beleive only costumer are tourist or e-costumer.
And when you know where is this selling point … you understand what kind of marketing it is. Only snobbery …
In fact I have discovered them via the web and not during my shoping.
Perfume are perhaps good, price are certainly inacceptable.
My problem now is that there is a huge contamination of “high price” in the domain of Niche Perfume. So I dont know what to think.
5 year ago a Lutens Palais Royal was at 95 Euro … and it was among the most expensive perfume in Paris. Now even at 105 Euro for 75 ml, it is only in the medium price.
Frederic Malle, PG, “le labo”, JAR and so on … have rised the price to incredible level. And I dont even understand how you can pay in $ …
I have only buy one Frederic Malle … and I still dont know if it worth it.
Last in mind … Annick Goutal orientalist .. only availlable in 100 ml for 120 Euro … crazy … for this price in the same shop you can have a lovelly Butterfly Bottle …
I can put an insane amount of money in perfume but I expect … incredible flagrance, prestige bottle
and classy box.
You can still count me in the snob group. But I try to avoid to be stupid.
I have nerver smell a Montale …
Each time I am near the Shop in Paris … I do not dare to Enter … It look like so much a trap for rich Arab Tourist.
I think I am wrong … but it is clearly not a shop for Parisian Costumer.
“a very green jasmine, bright and sparkling and just a bit indolic, over masses of dusty incense and a tiny dollop of dark woods” – sounds interesting indeed and even challenging 🙂
I'm sure it would go well with your soccer mom attire. You've just earned my respect from a completely different angle. Soccer is so not enough popular in North America that I salute anyone who does anything to keep it alive on this part of the continent 😉 As for myself – I only watch the world cup once every 4 years, which I suppose isn't much…
LOL — you are right, but you totally misled me, that is not what I think of as “bubblegum pop” at all!
Oeditrix, HA — but the whole theme of this article is nobody should tell you what to think about it 😉
That's a perfect test 🙂
Exactly — we all have the things we really care about, the things we sort of care about & then the things we don't care about at all. Wine: sort of 😉
LOL — well, you already know I have no edit button!
Ah — so we have an entirely different conception of what “niche” means.
Ayala, I'll have to admit I didn't earn your respect. “Soccer Mom” is shorthand (and not really altogether nice) for a certain kind of lifestyle. And actually, it wasn't very precise, as most people use it in a snide way about wealthy, very well pulled together women who ferry their kids around to their after school “enrichment” activities. I'm not “pulled together” (or wealthy) enough to qualify, probably. I suppose all I meant to say is that I dress VERY casually and couldn't care less what's in style, or if what I'm wearing isn't.
My son does play soccer, and I don't know — I realize it isn't very popular in NA, but given the huge percentage of school children who seem to play it these days, I'm assuming some day it will be? And that maybe football had better worry? I don't know a single kid who plays football.
I certainly had a heartattack. Luctor et Emergo is my darling, while Charlie is something that my mom gave me when she found her old bottle in a vanity in the attic. Gack.
But great article. I hate to admit that I'm very much influence by this perfume snobbery. I try to like niche perfumes better, and sometimes I do, but sometimes I just do NOT feel up to wearing even my beloved Luctor et Emergo, so I just throw on some nice stuff by Avon that cost me 4 dollars. Actually, it was the Avon that got me an incredibly nice complement. Thanks for the refresher course in “how to enjoy your own tastes, however they are”. 🙂
Benoit, I really appreciate what you write. You see things from a different angle and therefore you have a good healthy dose of critique. Agree with you that may fragrances are crazily expensive. Of course some may be worth it but not that many.
Snobbery is an appropriate word.
The way you describe the boutique of Montale…well I would not enter that store very quickly… I only have some samples by mail, and with the distance of over 1000 km. I can only be an online costumer anyway. As a lover of oriental perfumes I want to say that their perfumes are truly really worth to try. Yes they are expensive but I will gladly save my money for some of them.
You are so lucky living in Paris ;-D
I dont think so …
Can you explain why ?
Benoit, what do you think about Annick Goutal her perfumes?
Do you believe that they are expensive and if yes are they worth so much money?
Just now discovered that she has a little boutique in a passage five minutes from where I live. There are many treasures hidden in the passages of Prague.
Ok, please share the name of the Avon scent!
Well, if you don't call JAR & Le Labo niche, we must see the idea of “niche” quite differently, that's all.
There is another trap for misunderstandings. Soccer is being played all over Europe and a soccer mom is just a nice mom who brings her child to soccer, nothing more, nothing less and that has absolutely nothing to do with being wealthy or well pulled together or whatever. It is just one of those things that one does as a parent. Most kids go to the soccer fields by bike or just by foot and not by car.
Just something I wanted to say. 🙂
Actually, I got two scents from Avon, one for three dollars and one for four. The three dollar one- the one I like best- is there Blue rush, I think it's called. The other is the “Be Tempting” which is too sweet, but has some notes I really love. I should add that I work with a lady who used to sell avon and those were in her grab basket. I didn't actaually order them, but got bored at work one night and started sniffing all the perfumes. Haha. I knew once I saw them I wouldn't make it home with a complete pay check that night.
Ok .. it is niche .. but also a kind of scam in my opinion.
Reposted for Benoit as the long link stretched the page:
On March 12, 2008 Benoit said:
AG … are classical niche ..
Try them … read review on this site 🙂
Concerning price, if you can spare money, try to buy their Botterfly bottle rather than the classical one.
I dont know what kind of shop you have found but try to search if they have refill … it is flagrance quite cheap for AG.
(but no bottle 🙂 ) like this :
http://tinyurl.com/yu5xtm
I wish I worked with an Avon lady! I am really sorry I never get to try anything by Avon.
Will go and have a look and read reviews first. I mean it is not difficult to like a perfume but to know something more about it is important. I think that the AG shop is next to a LeClerc cosmetic shop. You know that French pharmacist that has those famous facial powders in tins.
Again, we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't like all of Le Labo's marketing tactics, but I think they're one of the most consistently interesting niche brands that has launched in the last few years.
And JAR, well, I do find the prices outrageous, but again, when I think of outrageously priced fragrances, the JARs are at least interesting and unusual. Many outrageously priced fragrances aren't even that.
Robin, that was an excellent, and well written article. Two thumbs up and many pats on the back for putting this up, because this was something that was sorely needed to be put up.
First off, I would rather spend money on a great smelling perfume than Botox – the thought of injecting deadly poisons gives me the willies a little bit. But, whatever floats your boat, right?
As for perfumes, I will admit that I do get pulled in by the pretty story and the advertising – seriously, who doesn't?
I have to agree that it initially does come down to personal taste, and it really shouldn't matter whether or not it's the “popular” choice or not — and you have to admit that credibility and fitting in is something that's very important to quite a few people, unfortunately.
For me personally, I tend to gravitate towards the classics. In an age where everything is so “clean”, “sweet”, and “inoffensive”, I like having something that doesn't fit so much under those kinds of labels.
Heck, anyone who's read my comments under the Chanel No. 5 posts knows that I have a long history with this particular perfume, going all the way back to my high school years when it was introduced to me by a very special teacher. I've been in love ever since, and I wear it proudly.
But here's something that bothers me about particular labels and “age snobbery” regarding particular perfumes (especially my beloved No. 5)…
What bothers me the most is the “age labels” put on certain scents, and the people who enforce those labels to the nines, for example, “This isn't a scent for a young lady, it's for a much more 'mature' crowd.” (Or like that hoo-hah about Chanel No. 5 being “old lady” so on and so forth. )
Who cares about who it's marketed to?
Okay, enough rambling from me tonight. Thanks for listening, hehe!
ok 🙂
I am perhaps not so snob afterall …
Benoit, I think you are not a snob at all and you are not easily fooled either. And whether Le Labo is niche or not, you look right through their marketing tactics.
No doubt we are all sucked in by packaging, advertising, all of that. There is no way around it, and the back story “matters” to me as well, more than I'd like it to.
The one reason I care about the age group being marketed to is that it sort of works as shorthand for me: if it's targeted to tweens, I can guess it will be sweet, etc. But so agree that enforcing those labels is silly, and I hate the “old lady” complaints.
Could you please give me a list of 5-7 dry woods you like.
I think I might try them even without light blue. I love dry woods very much.
Thank you!
Thank you! Instead of Island I prefer Aqua di Gio – I think it is more interesting and provocative, but it's quite floral, so the idea crossed my mind:)
When I was a teen I hated sweet perfume. I loved Opium and L'Air du temps.
It's works interesting: little girls want to be grown ups, and they like grown up perfume.
I would never forgive anybody for a girlish perfume, when I was a child:)
For woody fragrances, how about Feminite du Bois, by Shiseido, which has a cedar note, Halston Couture, more oak moss inspired, Bill Blass Nude, dry-grassy, and for men, Fendi Life Essence, and Bijan for men?
All good recs, and would add Diptyque Tam Dao, which I like to layer, and Serge Lutens Chene or Miel de Bois, Gucci Pour Homme.
Also thinking a drop of Terre d'Hermes might be nice w/ LB. With any of these, you're going to have to watch the proportions — guessing you want way more LB than the other, if that makes sense.
Thank you! I'l try whatever I could find.
Every Malle I have smelled is worth every penny. I do not agree with this. Sorry.
Rich Arab Tourist? that is a bit offensive.
it is not offensive
Do you know Place Vendome … Paris ?
One of the most expensive place of the world. And the shop … only Cartier, Van Cleef, Bucheron, …
All the shop arounds are made to please very rich client and most of them cames from the different emirates. And inside the shop many things are translate in Arab. (even the web site)
There is no shame about it. Montale plays very well around the mysterious scent of orient. That s part of the game 🙂
It is not meant to be offensive. Might be better to speak about tourists from the Gulfstates. Well I would hardly call them tourists, merely customers. Often they fly in and out on the same day.
Kim I believe that Frederic Malle is for the real perfume lovers.
Le Labo has the weirdest marketing ideas. Never smelled one scent by Le Labo so I don't have any idea how they are. I do like their website..:)
So the Light Blue is the “top” note with the dry woods being the drydown or base, right?
Yes, LIght Blue top notes, Chanel Chance heart/base notes.
Robin, just read this great article and felt the need to comment. I personally avoid celebrity scents not because I'm being a snob but because I've tried a few in the past and they were far far away from what I'd like (made me recoil even) so I vowed to never try one again until I as given a free sample of SJP's Covet. That just changed it all..
I tend to look for niche fragrances mainly because I dont want to smell like everyone else (although I must admit that I prefer the fact that they are more adventurous than mainstream). Like when Angel became so popular and everyone was wearing it – it was like a uniform! and so with VW Princess. I dont mind mainstream at all, actually, everytime something new comes out I'm at the counters, sniffing and asking for samples (I bet ya they all know me by now) but still trying to stay away from the widely worn fragrances. I look for something rare (or even discontinued).
It's a difficult one but like you said it's not about being a snob at all..
Well, you know, that is a different matter — I don't expect much from celebrity scents either, but then, I don't expect much from any scents geared towards that same market. So I can't disagree that they're far away from what I like, just that it isn't the “celebrity” part that is the problem, you know? But know what you mean also about wanting something that everyone else isn't already wearing.
“John Lee Supertaster” by the ever-fabulous They Might Be Giants.
Thank you! Great CD — we own it, just couldn't think of who did the song.
Yea, the same with music, pop rock hiphop or classical, whatever makes you happy :D.
I prefer anything rich, intense, sophisticated (books, music, movies), I’m not sure about perfume. Newbie.
Perhaps you will turn out to like intense and sophisticated in perfume as well 🙂
R-
About that ‘dream’ perfume….the green jasmine, wafting of incense…specked with dark woods…. sounds amazing…we need to get someone on that stat… Luca, perhaps? I know he has consulted for many scents… We should start a thread on Scents we want, but no one’s made or we haven’t found….
We did a poll on that once, we’ll have to do another!
Okay, diving back into the archives due to your vacation. Love this article, in particular this quote:
“Niche garbage is the most annoying kind of garbage, because it costs more and because the exclusivity and ambitious pricing can work insidiously to convince the wearer that if she doesn’t appreciate the fragrance, her own tastes must not be up to par.”
Bond No. 9, anyone? Even Chinatown…basically I’ve had them pushed on me by every high-end, know-nothing SA trying to make a pretty penny, and I have never warmed to any of the scents. $250 is a lot to pay for a pretty bottle that holds bug spray.
Ockeghem, it’s so great to find somebody else doesn’t get Bond. I’ve stuck my nose in every single one of them and wouldn’t even take a free sample if you forced it on me. Gag me with a flacon.